Mr. Hemingway packs a whole character into a phrase, an entire situation into a sentence or two. He makes each word count three or four ways. The covers of his book should strain and bulge with the healthful ferment that is between them. Here is an authentic energy and propulsive force which is contained in an almost primitive isolation of images as if the language itself were being made over in its early directness of metaphor. Each story, indeed, is a sort of expanded metaphor, conveying a far larger implication than its literal significations.
Critics—and readers—picked up on what you said in class today: the way Hemingway writes as if for a sixth grade test, the way each word takes on greater meaning because of the scarcity of words in the writing, the way he "packs a whole character into a phrase, an entire situation into a sentence or two." And in this story he introduces us to Nick, his father, and the universe they inhabit—which he will develop as he keeps writing about Nick. So:
1. Everyone respond: your reaction to the story? Like? Dislike? Why? And what line or sentence or image stays with you after you've set the story down? Quote from the story.
2. 9th and 11th graders: what is your impression of Doctor Adams? Is he good father? A bad father? Explain.
2. 10th and 12th graders. This is generally seen as an initiation story. How so? And what does Nick do with his new knowledge?
3. Everyone: does this story have a happy ending? Why or why not?
Write about 200-250 words in response to the three questions. Enter your response in the comment link at the end of the blog post.
A young Ernest Hemingway:
And the first edition of In Our Time:
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I liked Indian Camp despite it being traffic and intense. The fact that all of the Native American were smoking was a good representation of the issues in Native American culture being influenced by western culture. Tobacco and alcohol have destroyed the native Americans because their culture was unready to handle the addictions that western culture brings. This theme may have been very faint in the story but the meaning behind it is strong. The fact that a white man trades cigars to the native Americans shows how the white men brought this addiction to the americas. I think this is what stayed with me the most from the story. The line from the doctor that he doesn't hear the screams is also impactful but that opinion seemed to be very uncommon and not nearly as relevant as the western influence on the native Americans.
ReplyDeleteThe initiation in the story is the son of the doctor having to watch his father help a woman give birth. I don't think that this story has a happy ending because the father commits suicide. Also the family is still stuck in the cycle of addiction that may lead to suicide. Yes the baby was saved but the child has no father to raise it, which could influence it negatively.
I liked this story because I really enjoy stories where you can see how a character is changing or growing throughout the story. In the beginning of the story, Nick doesn’t seem to have any worries, but we see the evolution of his character when he’s rowing back across the lake and bombarding his father with questions about suicide and how dying might feel.
ReplyDeleteMy impression on doctor Adams is a little bit fuzzy. He seems like a tough, mean guy when he talks about how he cannot hear the screams because they are not important, but at the same time he stays patient with his son and answer the many questions he asks him on the ride back across the lake. I think it will take me a few more stories to have a firm grasp on where I stand with his father more.
I think this story has a happy ending of sorts. He is still young and didn’t even want to watch his father preforming surgery, but has now witnessed seeing a man that has killed himself. He has lost some of his innocence, but in the end, he says he thinks will never die. This gives me hope that there is still some child and innocence in him. “They were seated in the boat, Nick in the stern, his father rowing”, I like this because it shows Nick still needs guidance and steering from his father.
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DeleteAlthough I enjoyed the way with which Hemingway presented the story, I can not get over both the lack of empathy displayed for the mom giving birth and absence of respect and superiority displayed by Doctor Adams and Uncle George. Adams has just been welcomed into someone else’s home, yet he says “Pull back that quilt, will you George? I’d rather not touch it” (Hemingway 29). His superiority leaks from his skin, permeating the air. The child, Nick, seems to be the only one in the group who actually makes an effort to the observe the situation without judgement; maybe it it his naiveté? Unlike the other individuals in the story, he is not stroking his ego like Doctor Adams, laughing at the woman in pain, or acting as if he is superior like Uncle George. In fact, Nick actually seems to be uncomfortable in the situation.
ReplyDeleteThe birth of the baby and the death of the father depict life processes. Many parents with young children try and protect their children from both the harshness and pain of death; some believe that the seeing death or conversation regarding death with spoil their child’s innocence. This is Nick’s first touch with death and the associated experiences; while he has not experienced a physical change, he now understands, or at least has become exposed to, death. Hemingway writes, “It was just beginning to be daylight when they walked along the logging road back toward the lake” (33); is Hemingway alluding to a new chapter of Nick’s life? Has he crossed the border from childhood innocence into adolescent understanding? Instead of reacting in horror at the sight of the man like most would, he seems to assume a different understanding of the situation.
The ending is ambiguous. On one hand, it seems as if Nick has matured beyond his years, but at the same time, his character resorts back to childhood ideas regarding death and the notion that we are all invincible.
I like the story mostly for its blatant honesty and layered meaning. Nick’s father brings him along to observe a woman in labor to teach him about his profession and how relentless and sometimes cruel the world can truly be. “It was an awful mess to put you through”, Nick’s father says to his son, even though what he originally planned to put him through, childbirth, was still a mess, especially to a young child. However, what I really liked is how Nick did get a lesson about the harsh realities of the world, but in a jarring and surprising manner; he was fully immersed in the real world as soon as his father pulled back the blanket.
ReplyDeleteNick is welcomed to a more mature world not just by seeing the difficulty and pain of life beginning right before his eyes, but also by witnessing its sometimes grotesque and saddening end. He internalizes the knowledge stemming from what he's learned, but he also doesn't completely understand it. Nick still has somewhat of a childish perception, telling himself that even after all that he's seen that day, he’ll never die.
For Nick’s father, the task assigned to him was completed successfully, but his day as a whole had a grave end. However, at the end of the story, Nick, who is the protagonist and therefore somewhat more important, feels empowered and not at all dragged down from the events of the day. The outcome of the story and whether or not it was happy depends on the perspective of the characters.
Though the story is pretty grim, I liked it because it clearly depicts two of life’s critical moments, childbirth and death. Even more interesting, it depicts them in a sexist, racist, and culturally charged environment . The line that stuck out to me the most is how the doctor responds to Nick’s question (“‘Do many women [kill themselves]?’”) by saying “‘Hardly ever.’” It seems that the Doctor thinks fewer women kill themselves than men, which leaves me wondering why he says this.
ReplyDeleteI think this is definitely an initiation story because Nick is introduced to unpleasant, violent, and adult concepts. The idea of childbirth is normally kept away from children (perhaps even more than the idea of death), so the pains associated with both coming into and going out of life are introduced to Nick. He responds to his new knowledge of birth and death by asking questions; however, he doesn’t seem to entirely comprehend what he has seen because he is convinced he will never die, despite the fact that the concept of the cycle of life was so forcefully thrust upon him.
Overall, I would not say this ending is happy because the father of the newborn child does not live to see that everything is alright. The positive aspects of the ending, the fact that Nick gains knowledge and the baby lives, seem overwhelmed by the death.
I liked the story, the sudden twist in the middle was surprising but vital to make the story more of a landmark in Nick's life. Although Nick seems a bit young for such a stunning life experience, his reaction seems realistic to that of a young boy's age in that he asks a few questions but his curiosity is eventually satisfied when he feels above these horrific parts of real life. A line that stuck out to me was when the Doctor says, "But her screams are not important. I don't hear them because they are not important."
ReplyDeleteThis is an initiation story because Nick's dad is showing him some of his own life as an adult, Nick's learning some very strong and important concepts of life in one night, seeing things he knows he shouldn't. He accepts what his dad tells him and thinks he's above it and feels deeply safe because of his father's sure answers to his few questions.
This is a happy ending for Nick because he feels confident in his safe standing in society, seeing lives he doesn't know personally go through that.
(Continued): However, overall I do not feel as if this is a completely "happy ending," it is a very unconventional story and although Nick is innocently satisfied with how the story ended, it leaves the reader wanting more and Nick and his father left without feeling the need to give the family any more help than was already given, not that they owed them anymore. It constantly feels slightly incomplete.
DeleteI enjoyed Indian Camp because it gives the reader an introduction into what Nick Adams life is like. At a very young age, Nick is subjected to life and death in very close proximity to each other. After reading the story a couple times, I am always left with the image of a woman giving birth through a C- Section and a man who had just killed himself. Hemmingway shows just how young and nieve Nick really is by his lack of knowledge of the world. By the end of the story, Nick has seen how difficult creating life is; "'This lady is going to have a baby, Nick,' he said. 'I know,' said Nick. 'You don't know,'"(17) and how easy death can be; "'Is dying hard Daddy?' 'No, I think its pretty easy, Nick. It all depends.'" (21).
ReplyDeleteThe story can be seen as an initiation story because this experience opens up the world to Nick. While his use of the knowledge is still rather rash and nieve, Nick has now seen more than most kids his age would have. Even if we do not know Nick's age, it is pretty clear through the use of so much dialogue through the story that a lot of what Nick knows and sees is seen through the eyes of a child.
The story has a relatively happy ending because it shows what Nick took out of the story; that he will never die. While that assumption is very irrational, it still shows that Nick, having had this terrible experience, is still a child and hasn't completely matured past his age.
In Indian Camp, Hemingway probed at many topics that are discussed within society today: gender roles, cultural divides in the medical field, and the declining Native American reputation. The story captured the beginnings of a young one’s discovery of life and death in a beautifully simplistic manner.
ReplyDeleteIn particular, the line “It was just beginning to look like daylight…,” (20) following Hemingway’s bleak description of the Native man’s suicide, acts as a transition to the next scene. However, Hemingway’s use of daylight paints a radiant picture against the darkness of the shanty. The line also hints at Nick grappling with the concept of life and death, seeing as he had just witnessed both. In other words, the line could be read as Nick being exposed to the world around him, initiating him into the primary stages of adulthood. Yet, despite literally witnessing death, Nick’s belief that he would never die demonstrates that he is still learning and not fully matured.
The ending of Indian Camp was bittersweet, not entirely happy nor unhappy. While Nick did learn of death and the negativity that is attached to it, he does not let it phase him. Rather, to some degree, Nick seems to challenge himself to be better and stronger than what he saw in the shanty, to overcome death. His belief is ambitious and makes the reader glad that he still has some aspect of innocence and naivety, but the ending also sets Nick up for disappointment in the future.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading this story. I liked how in even the shortest sentences, there was an immense amount of meaning, each word served a very significant purpose. The line from the story that continues to create a strong image in my head after reading is, "A bass jumped, making a circle in the water." Although at first glance this line seemed a bit out of place, after rereading it and thinking about it for a little bit, the meaning became clear. The image of a circle, in this instance, is representative of the circle of life, something that appeared to be prominent throughout the story. As new life started, with the birth of the baby, another life ended, with the death of the baby's father. Doctor Adams is a crucial character to the plot of this story. I would not say that he is neither a good father nor a bad father. He has shown to be good in many ways but to also be bad, I do not believe that he is one more than he is the other. The ways that he treats, cares, and truly loves his son are all good things. For example, he takes the time to explain what is happening to his son and afterward he apologizes for what he made his son see, something that is very hard for most people to do. But, he also allowed his son to see such awful things, such as a dead human being. He also appears to have ignored the pain of the mother and focused on his accomplishments as a doctor. Although it was made clear at the end of the story that he did not intend on his son seeing such things, he is human, and through the author's writing, he distinctly illustrated that.
This story does not have a happy ending. At the end of the story when Nick saw the dead man and he appeared shocked, that moment seemed to be his loss of innocence. But, on the boat at the end of the story, he thought that he would never die, which shows that he is still oblivious to the inevitable ways of life, and despite the fact that many people believe that innocence is bliss, in this case I would have to disagree.
Overall, I enjoyed “Indian Camp.” Ernest Hemingway’s writing style, (short, concise sentences and simple words), made it so that the story was easy to comprehend. I appreciate the story more now that I have thought about it a bit more, as I believe there are hidden themes and social commentary that is not apparent upon first reading through it. One line that stuck out to me was what the doctor said after he finished the operation: “Ought to have a look at the proud father. They’re usually that worst sufferers in these affairs.” This line was significant to me because it seems like an antiquated and misogynistic view to think that fathers suffer more than mothers during childbirth, given all of the physical pain of labor. I don’t think the reader is given enough evidence to determine whether the doctor is a good or bad father. I say this because we see instances of him seeming to genuinely care about the happiness of his son, such as when he asked Nick if he liked being an intern. On the other hand, he seems to care very little for the Native American mother or her child, as evidenced by the way he disregards the importance of her screams. This lack of empathy for others is bound to rub off on his son, something that no father should ever do.
ReplyDeleteWith a conscious woman undergoing surgery, and a man committing suicide, this is a gory and repulsive scene. Not to mention they have both been in the room for about three days, him with an infected foot, and her in labor. I think it is interesting how different this is compared to the normal birth narrative. Hemingway took what is normally a happy and joyful occasion, one that is celebrated, and flipped the narrative completely. What is normally something that people are grateful and excited for, is shown in this story as something horrific and immensely painful.
ReplyDeleteThis is a different picture not only because of the smell, the woman's surgery, and the man's blood in the room, but also because of the way the Indians are treated. Before the procedure, the doctor does not think twice about how the woman must feel, and he tells Nick that her screams are not important. After the surgery, he and Uncle George see it as “one for the medical journal”, and are quite proud of themselves. I think that the neglection of the mother's feelings and fears, and the way that they didn't even attempt to comfort her, are fueled by racism.
I liked this story because it presented hard realities from the perspective of a young child and, by using simplistic language, somehow gave greater insight to me about these evils. One line that stuck with me was after Nick’s father has delivered the baby and he is described as “...feeling exalted and talkative as football players are in the dressing room after a game”. The simplicity of the simile shows how absurd his reaction to suffering and pain is, without overanalyzing the subject.
ReplyDeleteNick’s father wants to initiate Nick into manhood by showing him life being born, suffering and, inadvertently, death. However, Nick is not fascinated or interested in this new world, but alienated from his father and now possessing a false sense of invincibility. He “look(s) away so as not to see what his father (is) doing” during the delivery of the baby and, instead of becoming wiser after seeing death and suffering, he misunderstands what his father was trying to show him and leaves the scene with a false sense of invincibility and the feeling that he can conquer death when he says “he felt quite sure that he would never die”. Therefore, this story does not have a happy ending, as Nick leaves the Indian camp less wise about suffering and more naïve about how to deal with it.
I certainly enjoyed this story; however, the enjoyment I drew from Hemingway's piece stems from the profundity of his writing style here, as every word and phrase carries with it a meaning which allows the reader to think of its connection to the central theme of this story. This central theme seems to be how life and death, and the circle surrounding and in between, are perceived by Nick before and after the teachings from his father and the story's events. Even subtle details render beautiful because of their connections. For example, the circle formed by the bass represents a circle of life, and the warmth of the water compared to the morning's chill represents balance in said circle, as where there is life, there will be death. However, the line that stuck with me the most happens to be the ending, where Nick assures himself that he will never die; this strongly captures the feelings of innocence and self-assurance that I can relate to from my own life which i specifically relate to when I was younger.
ReplyDeleteThe story's initiation relates to the introduction of Nick, a young, innocent person, to the reality of death, and how it is not specifically defined. He later asks his father about the events which transpired in the camp, and his father replies in a somewhat unclear manner, without much certainty in his responses; Nick's father explains that death can be easy, or not necessarily, and that people may want to live, or want to die. With the new insight he gains from the rather gruesome situation, Nick curiously questions his father, and when thinking of an answer is left to Nick himself, he then abandons the knowledge in the belief that he would live forever.
The story has a sort of mixed ending which leans towards unhappiness. Nick was familiarized with the possibility of his own death after seeing what happened in the shanty concerning the pain of both new life and death, and yet chooses to eventually ignore this familiarity and instead allows himself to mature later, with more experiences in his past to inform him. Despite Nick's somewhat positive grasp of how the situation affects him, I believe this is overshadowed by two things: the newborn child will never meet his father, and Nick's father and uncle say that the woman's pain and procedure should be catalogued with the doctor's past successful operations, even though it caused her great anguish.
I think that the style of writing is interesting to read, but the story actually made me mad when I was reading it. Dr. Adams seems to be rather sexist towards women. While reading I noticed that many of his comments are not very empathetic for example he says, “...Her screams are not important. I don’t hear them because they are not important.” He also says, “I want to have a look at the proud father. They’re usually the worst sufferers in these little affairs. It really frustrates me that, after all the suffering of labor and a C-section the woman just went through, he had the nerve to say that the father suffered the most. Like the pregnant woman was just an inconvenience for him. It made me think about the class discussion and how we related the era that he lived in to some of his prejudices. I also disapprove of the doctor taking his son with him. He may have meant well and I’m not saying that he is an an all-around bad parent, but I don’t think he should take his kids to see something like that at such a young age. I don’t think the story has a happy ending, because both the dad and the mom suffered so much and it seems like the doctor left the mom while she was still in a pretty bad state.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed some aspects of the story, but other parts of it make me uncomfortable. Though it was a nice "rite of passage story", the lack of empathy and compassion from Nick's father and Uncle George toward the Native American husband and wife is striking. There is no evidence in the text that Nick's father attempts to keep the Native American wife updated on what's going on, in fact Nick's father barely attempts to communicate with the Native American woman at all. Additionally, when Nick asks his father to give the Native American woman anesthetic to stop her screaming, he replies "Her screams are not important. I don't hear them because they are not important." Nick's behavior dehumanizes the Native American couple, and that is the aspect of the story that makes me uncomfortable.
ReplyDeleteI can definitely understand why "Indian Camp" is considered an initiation story. Nick's father exposes Nick to medicine, death, and fear for presumably the first time. His father is constantly attempting to teach him about being a doctor and about life, his father explains "What [the Native American woman] is going through is called being in labour....Babies are supposed to be born head first, but sometimes they're not....Maybe I'll have to operate on this lady." In this way, Nick's father is initiating Nick. What Nick takes away from this initiation is the courage to face difficult things in life and not resort to suicide like the Native American husband.
I think that "Indian Camp" does have a happy ending, as Nick ends up taking something valuable away from the situation. Though it's a gruesome story, this experience is definitely a rite of passage moment for Nick, and having the rite of passage moments throughout the story made the ending seem a little more happy.
I actually quite liked the story. It definitely felt like a Hemingway story, the way in which the writing just drops you in, and continues to have the lack of superfluous language, and lots of meaning packed into few words. I found myself also really drawn in by the context of the story itself, and how peculiar it all was. Not only were they off to help a woman give birth in the middle of the night in an indian camp, but the young Nick was being brought along by his doctor father, and Uncle George was also along for the ride. I also enjoyed the details about the scenery, especially the way Hemingway differentiates between different kinds of darkness depending on where the characters are. What stands out most to me was probably “Uncle George was smoking a cigar in the dark” (pg 16). The image of a guy standing on the shore of the lake, and all you can really see of him is the glow of the end of his cigar and smoke rising in the dark of night was a cool picture.
ReplyDeleteThe initiation of Nick as an intern into his father’s world of medicine was a raw one, to be sure. He is immediately sprung into a difficult birth, and Nick obviously finds the scene unpleasant, and “His curiosity had been gone a long time” (pg 19). His most important knowledge gained seems to be more from the suicide of the indian father rather than the medical procedure of the birth itself, however his new knowledge is not exactly helpful to him, as he becomes sure that he will never die. To me, that belief is not a safe one to hold, and it makes me wonder what that thought is going to be like in Nick’s future, how his belief in his own immortality will hold up in light of his true fragility during the war.
I really liked the story because of strong storytelling in only a few pages. I thought the detail and imagery was vivid without a lot of description which makes the story punchy. A line that stuck out to me was after Doctor Adams has performed the operation, “He was feeling exalted and talkative as football players are in the dressing room after a game.” (69) For me this line stuck out because it was an interesting way to describe the doctors behavior. It felt like it was unattached to the actual birth of the baby and the mothers pain, but rather excitement for what he had accomplished as if he had won a football game. Very strange to me but interesting at the same time. I think this is an initiation of Nick because he learns about how people come into the word and also how they leave. Seeing a baby being born, for him participating in its birth, connects someone with life and how it begins. When Nick’s father discovers that the husband has killed himself, Nick also sees what life looks like when its over. For Nick he is almost forced to grow up and realize the life is beautiful but also painful and sad. I think the end is not so happy in the sense that the baby born miraculously no longer has a living father. For Nick, the end is hopeful because he has been revealed to birth and death and feels like he can live forever.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I somewhat enjoyed Hemingway's Indian Camp; Hemingway used a short and simple story, filled with simplistic language, to convey complex messages about the characters and the environment they are placed in. Within the shanty, he creates an atmosphere that reflects the actual world by describing racial and sexual tensions that existed in 1921. “She bit Uncle George on the arm and Uncle George said, ‘Damn squaw bitch!’ and the young Indian who had rowed Uncle George over laughed at him." (18) He creates different ways of how a young Nick might perceive the world based on his experience within the shanty, with a comparison between his father, Doc Adams and the Indian father. While I did not really enjoy the plot-line and how the characters interacted with each other (even if it is accurate), I was able to appreciate the simple beauty that described a complex theme such as the circle of life.
ReplyDeleteDoctor Adams is a rather intriguing character, as a doctor who is operating on the Mother and as a father. On one side, the audience might see him as a non-compassionate person for the way he treats the mother, gutting her and pulling out the baby and leaving her for some nonexistent nurses. He allows his young son into a disgusting shanty where a woman has been in labor for 3 days and for letting him act as an ‘intern’. On the other hand, he is a product of his time in the way he interacts with the Indians and the reason he might seem not as compassionate as other doctors is because in a hectic and confusing situation as the Shanty is in, he is able to compartmentalize his own feelings and to focus on his task: the Caesarian. I don’t think he is a good father, mostly because he does allow his son to be introduced to such a complex topic at a young age that might give him a perverse version of the truth.
I don’t think the story ends on a high note as Hemingway writes it as because after this horrifying experience, Nick has been exposed to a skewed version of the world. Death is a decision, birth is torture, and life is just brutal. Within the shanty, Nick is only exposed to the decisions that seem to border on the extreme (with the way the Indian father committed suicide and how the mother was in labor for 3 days in a room that smelled like literal crap). Because of this, he is resolved on his world views and the fact he doesn't want to die, which is inevitable.