"No. Not exactly," Nick said. (254)
Here's Hem and his first wife Hadley and their first child John "Bumby" Hemingway in Austria around 1925:
Schruns, Austria, where Ernest and Hadley and their friends liked to ski.
Hem and his buddies in Schruns:
Hemingway married Hadley Richardson, seven years his senior, in 1921(when he was 22) and Hadley give birth to John Hadley Nicanor Hemingway—who would be called Jack—in 1923. They divorced in 1927 after Hadley discovered Ernest was having an affair with Pauline Pfeiffer. Hemingway married Pauline in 1927.
For one of the questions below, please quote from the story. 200-250 words. Some of you have not been meeting that requirement.
1. Your response to the story? What moment, image, or line particularly struck you or stayed with you?
2. For 9th and 10th graders: on 253:
They ate strudel and drank the rest of the wine.
George leaned back against the wall and shut his eyes.
"Wine always makes me feel this way," he said.
"Feel bad?" Nick asked.
"No. I feel good, but funny."
"I know," Nick said.
"Sure,"said George.
Nick and George share some feeling. It's not being drunk—this is not Nick and Bill. But going back to the Iceberg Theory, the answer—what is the feeling George has that Nick recognizes—should be discernible. So what do you think he's feeling that's "good but funny"? If you agree with a classmate, add to their reasons: don't simply say you agree, ok?
2. For 11th and 12th graders: same page and 254:
"Will you go back to the States?"
"I guess so."
"Do you want to?"
"No."
"Does Helen?"
"No."
George sat silent. He looked at the empty bottle and the empty glasses.
"It's hell, isn't it?" he said.
"No. Not exactly," Nick said.
"Why not?"
"I don't know," Nick said.
What do you think is "not exactly" the "hell" George says it is? (Of course, if it's not exactly hell, it's pretty darn close to it) Again, this is the Iceberg Theory; and as with the question for the 9th and 10th graders, don't simply agree with each other; elaborate and expand.
3. What's the story about? What is Hemingway looking at here, writing about, in this simple story of two friends skiing?
That's it. Four more days of short term. Or as I call it now, "short te—." That's pronounced "shore-ta!"
1. I liked the story because through Hemingway’s descriptions, I could picture the different scenes and moods more clearly. A line that stuck with me was: “...he knew the pace was too much. But he held it. He would not let go and spill” (249) because it seems like Nick is letting go and getting lost in the adrenaline, almost as if he were running into something head on instead of away from it.
ReplyDelete2. George and Nick could be feeling a sense of reminiscence. In a way, they could be proud of how they have grown, but it’s also “funny,” or not exactly sweet, because of what they had to go through and their loss of innocence.
3. The story is about reconnecting with the world. As Nick grew up in the stories, he became increasingly disconnected from the people around him, but in this story, he moves on and heads towards a new life while saying goodbye to his old one. In a way, it could also be a story about healing and growth because Nick and George are catching up, but since they are older and Nick is getting married, they’re learning to part. Yet, there doesn’t seem to be any tears shed in the story.
1. I liked how Nick seemed to be serene while also enjoying himself during this story. He doesn't seem crazy or stressed, just at peace. He's surrounded by nature, which is one of his favorite things, so I can see why he'd be so comfortable. However, the line that stuck with me was, “There isn't any good in promising,”; it’s harsh and cold towards his friend George, which means there must be some sort of underlying message or reference to it.
ReplyDelete2. Contrasting to the calm tone in the beginning of the story, Nick and George share a hopeless and defeated feeling. Nick feels that his youth is gone now that he's tied down both in marriage and his soon to be child. George is disappointed as well, seeing that his friend has to return home and can't have very many skiing outings anymore, if any.
3. The story is about Nick’s busy life coming to a close; he isn't dying, but he's winding down with a family and a permanent adulthood. It seems that Nick isn't sure if he's happy about this change or not. He doesn't blatantly voice a distaste for his wife, but he does say he doesn't want to return to the states and neither does his wife. I'm not entirely sure what that means, whether it’s that he and Helen don't get along well or that the location isn't ideal. Overall, the story is a quiet and slightly somber recount of the end of something lively.
I agree; when matched with the quote you mentioned, it is almost as if they expected or should have expected that their friendship would have to come to an end at some point. In this sense, I suppose the wine almost forces them to acknowledge their time together, the fact that they had fun and the fact that it's ending.
Delete1. I liked this story more than I liked the last one we read. The line that stuck out the most to me after reading was, “That’s the way it is everywhere.” In this scene, Nick and George were talking about the rockiness of mountains. In those few lines, the mountains seemed to be representative of life. The rockiness of those mountains just goes to show that life is not easy nor is it predictable. It seems like Nick has switched roles with almost every other character he has interacted with in the stories we have read. Nick, in this story, is depicted as a fatherly character. It is shown in the way he talks to George, how he explains things to him.
ReplyDelete2. What George is feeling here is calmness. From what we read in the story about Nick and Bill, drinking, made it seem like their problems were not as significant. Here, I think that Bill is feeling something similar to that, but on a much smaller scale. The “funny” feeling is reality. Although the drinking may make them feel as though their problem are gone or that the world has stopped, the funny feeling is that they know that that did not happen.
3. Here, Hemingway is writing about life. This story is about the fact that life goes on. The mountains, as I stated above, represent life. As Nick said, “That’s the way it is everywhere,” meaning that there will always be another mountain to climb, as Miley Cyrus said. There will always be another challenge.
I concur about the funny feeling; we saw that in a previous story concerning a similar subject (The Three Day Blow), Nick is unsure whether he wants to get married and have a family. There's a lot of pressure on him to do so, as it's considered the "norm", but he still has feelings on both sides of the issue that we get to see. The reason he relates to George in this moment is that Nick has to face that funny feeling, the reality of accepting responsibility.
Delete1.For me, I feel that the theme of ‘expect the unexpected’ doesn’t exactly resonate with Nick. He didn’t really learn it in “The Battler”, “The Killer”, or in any of the other stories we have read. He seems to get really focused on one aspect of it, expect it to be like that for the rest of his life, and that it won’t change. When it does change, as everything eventually does, he kind of falls flat on his face, sometimes physically and metaphorically. The opening scene of Nick falling in the snow really represented that for me. “But he held it. He would not let go and spill. Then a patch of soft snow, left in a hollow by the wind, spilled him and he went over in a clashing of skis, feeling like a shot rabbit, then stuck, his legs crossed, his skis sticking straight up and his nose and ears jammed full of snow,” (249). It just seems like Nick gets into the groove of something, really starts to like it, then something happens, and he doesn’t really know how to adapt and fit into this changed scene, or even world.
ReplyDelete2. Personally, I saw the ‘hell’ as being responsible. As discussed earlier in the story, most people in Swiss country don’t get married until they are pregnant. Then, it is mentioned that Helen is pregnant. At Nick still seems like a fairly young adult (due to having to go back to school), it can be assumed that he is not yet married, and that he knocked up Helen who is now two months along. Now Nick has a couple of choices: leave Helen by herself to raise the baby, or to stay and help out, to be responsible. In this scene, I think that George still has a young mind, not really experienced anything really bad in his life. He might want to experience more of it, wanting to explore the world, which makes the idea of being tied down and responsible sound a lot like hell. However, with Nick, it doesn’t necessarily sound as bad just because he has experienced something’s other than just skiing down mountains. Yes, he may not want to go back to the states and not be able to do whatever he wants, but it might be relaxing to have some structure in his life.
3. This story is about learning how to adjust, and how to adapt. In times past, Nick has not really caught on to what is happening and everything just comes to him as random. However, with a kid on the way, he is stepping up to take responsibility. Nick is learning that everything is not under his control and that he shouldn’t be focused on trying to control life so much. He needs to be able to adapt, to learn to go with the flow so that he won’t continually fall flag on his face, like he did with the soft patch of snow.
1. While it worked with a similar theme or two to the last story we read, "Cross-Country Snow" was an easier story to get through, as it had more interesting descriptions and moved at a faster, more engaging pace. I particularly liked the sort of tension in the story; at this point Nick is married and is expecting a child, but feels burdened to return home to the United States to take care of his child. We see him begrudgingly accepting his oncoming responsibilities, even though he will lose access to good skiing (one of his hobbies), as the mountains in the U.S. are "too rocky" (254) and have "too much timber" (254), along with their location being "too far away" (254). Nick wants to figure out some way to still enjoy himself, and even though he insists on eventually going again, he realizes that there may be too much for him to do and take care of, so he says, "there isn't any good in promising" (254).
ReplyDelete2. I think that the "good, but funny" (253) feeling that George and Nick share is one of a sort of "fake" happiness. It's something that Nick uses to stop thinking about his responsibilities to get married and have a family; he and Bill get drunk in "The Three Day Blow" to help Nick get over breaking up with Marjorie. Here, it's also used to provide some sort of barrier against the full reality of what Nick (and others) have to face, although George and Nick talk about Nick's responsibilities shortly afterwards. They feel good, because that's what drinking a lot of alcohol does, but funny due to alcohol's use to temporarily evade their problems or negative feelings, which in this case concern leaving their current happy lives behind tog o back to school or to the states to raise a family. That funny feeling is masked responsibility.
3. This story mainly surrounds Nick's feelings concerning going home and having a baby/family. At the current moment, when Nick is asked about whether he's glad he's having a kid he says, "Yes. Now" (252). This shows that his feelings will most likely change later, and also that his going back to the United States brings up mixed emotions. On one side, he doesn't want to leave, saying that leaving "isn't worth while" (254) if he can't ski ever again. On the other, Nick does show that he is currently happy about his future as a parent, and is seemingly understanding and willing to accept responsibility in order to be one. The story hosts this conflict at its center.
The moment that stuck with me the most was Nick attempting to describe the feeling of skiing. In that moment he seems truly happy and he seems to be enjoying life. His friend George seems to be genuine and real.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the feeling is contemptment. Nick and George are not worried about what is going to happen next to them, and the alcohol has rid any remaining streads of stress and worry. This feeling is like having no worry in the world.
I think this story is about Nick finally fully recovering from his time at war. This story shows him genuinely finding something he loves doing, skiing, and pursuing it. He does seem though not to be on track with other people his age. This is seen in how George has to go off to school and Nick is left behind. The ages of Nick and George though aren’t really specified so there could be a large age gap that would explain why Nick is not in school. Also I am a little lost at how Nick can afford to go on ski trips in northern Europe. I think that this story is asking whether young soldiers can really come back into society and readjust. I think that they can adjust to the way society works and find their own happiness but it will be very hard to provide for themselves because the military doesn’t teach skills that get jobs.
1.I enjoyed the story. This Nick seems older than the Nick in Big Two- Hearted River and appears to have his life pretty much sorted out. His wife is about to have a baby, he’s skiing with his friend in Switzerland, and he seems overall happy. While Nick doesn’t get straight up drunk like he did with Bill in The Three Day Blow, he still gets drunk, but off a much more “sophisticated” drink by today’s standards. The scene that sticks with me is the scene of dialogue between Nick and George, talking about Nick’s wife, Helen.
ReplyDelete2.I think that the feeling “good, but funny” is talking about the numbing feeling of alcohol, this clearly being a post- war story definitely boosts this, because Nick would want to forget that. We don’t know George’s backstory, but we can assume he’s had some rough times in his life. This feeling would be good because it allows for them to forget past trauma, but funny because this weight has been taken off of their shoulders.
3.Hemingway is looking at a reflective moment in Nick’s life. Nick’s life clearly has some mirroring of Hemingway’s life, so I think that Hemingway is using this story to reflect on a moment in life where he felt truly at peace.
I enjoyed reading this story. I found Nick's statement of “hell, no girls get married around here till they are knocked up” (Hemingway 252) both worrisome and quite cocky. He acts as if he has insider knowledge on the state of marriage and motherhood. Maybe he is simply stating the obvious, but, regardless of his intent, he does so without compassion. Who knows, she might be cranky for a completely different reason than not being married while pregnant, but he doesn't try and sympathize with her. I find his automatic assumptions about her pregnancy and therefore her state of mind unsettling.
ReplyDeleteIn response to George’s statement, Nick is speaking to the idea that as sentient creatures with a conscience, most of us feel obligated to conform, not in the sense that one must own up to one's actions and become a responsible parent like most, but instead something deeper. It almost seems as if Nick is alluding to the concept of give and take; we must give up the life in Europe and move to the states so we can find the happiness that is expected of us and parenthood. While the physical act of moving to America and giving up the European way of life might not be hell, the act of parenthood is hell in itself. When Nick responds with “Yes. Now” (253) in response to George's inquiry about the impending arrival of the baby, Nick seems to be answering the question with “yes” simply out of obligation; his answer appears to be void of emotion, happiness. I don't buy it that Nick is happy or glad; instead all I see is resignation.
Hemingway seems to be commenting that within all the the fun, or at least perceived fun that something like skiing brings, hard conversations and uncomfortable situations are inevitable. Nick and George can't just ski and take their minds off everything; they must analyze the life of pregnant waitress, turn to the serious topic of marriage and discuss the implications that the future brings. Essentially there is no freedom from reality; it is present regardless as to whether we choose to either tune in or simply avoid it.
1.) I liked this story because the writing had a certain mood which stuck with me after I read it. This mood had a tone of melancholy and sadness which came from in between the lines, not from the story and dialogue itself. The line that stuck with me was when Nick said “Those specks of cork in it don't matter” (252) when he had trouble opening the wine. He seemed to be trying to brush off his struggle to open the bottle and gave off a feeling of insecurity which added to the tone.
ReplyDelete2.) I think that Nick and George share the same feeling when they drink wine of a fake-happiness. They are drowning away the dissatisfaction present in their real lives with the feeling that wine brings. It is a way of avoiding reality. Nick specifically may be trying to drown out memories of war, and may have been doing so for a long time. This leaves him with a funny feeling because he has, for so long, separated himself from reality that he does not know how to live fully anymore.
3.) I think Hemingway is writing about two friends who have started life after war and have to adjust to a “normal” life. There is a sense from Nick that he does not want to return to a regular pace and home life. Perhaps this dissatisfaction will continue with him, but during this story it is the stepping stone for him back into the mundane world outside of combat.
1. I liked reading this story, because you get to see Nick when he’s peaceful and doing everyday normal hints with his friend. This story is more relatable than most of the previous ones. The line that stuck with me was “George and Nick were happy. They were fond of each other. They knew they had the run back home ahead of them. I think it shows that Nick has finally gotten to a place where he can enjoy being with his friend and have a normal day.
ReplyDelete2. think that they are feeling calm and comfortable, and that it feels funny because Nick isn’t used to feeling that way. It probably feels weird to him to have such a normal day after being in war. I think that he also feels weird that his life as whole, not only that day, is becoming more normal and uneventful. He is with a girl and is about to have a child, and will be more tied down. I think we can see him realizing this when George asks if they will ever go skiing again. Nick’s life will probably be less adventurous from this point on, and he has to adjust to the change
3. This story is about two friends adjusting to the changes in their lives, and realizing they won’t always be as adventurous as they used to be. I think they are both realizing they are getting older.
1. I enjoyed reading this story, but the ending was the most interesting part to me. The beginning seemed to be only about skiing, but the conversation Nick has with George at the end stuck out to me. I was interested in this because I had never heard of Helen in any of the other Nick Adams stories.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the feeling is a sense of realization, and in this case it is not a good realization. George and Nick seem almost depressed about where they are in their lives. They avoid talking about anything like this and enjoy skiing together, but later in the tavern they finally begin to acknowledge what they are feeling. This feeling doesn't seem like a satisfied feeling, but more panicked and upset based on the conversation the two men are having.
3. I think this story is about Nick losing something forever, because of Helen. He tells George he will have to move back to the states, and they are saddened when they realize they will not be skiing together anymore. This seems like Nick doesn't really want to move to raise his child, and that he would much rather stay where he could be around George and ski often.
1. I enjoyed the story because it was short and sweet. Even though skiing is a foreign concept as I have never skied, I felt like I was in the moment when Hemingway described the skiing scenes. An image that stayed with me was the Inn. The pregnant women to the cork pieces in the wine was really interesting to me and the details were bizarre but also felt very authentic.
ReplyDelete2. I initially thought that the hell he was referring to was the US but then as I looked closer I discovered that he may be talking about the hell of fatherhood. Nick’s Helen is due to have a baby and this closes Nick off to many things. The hell George is referring to could be that of having to but Helen and his child before himself. I think that Nick’s response of “not exactly’ tells us little about Nick’s attitude towards the child. He doesn't see it as hell but doesn't see it as a bright hope of the future. There is something sinister about his future because he has not prescribed it as a total hell. The Iceberg Theory, I think, plays an especially big role here because Nick doesn't elaborate and the reader but parcel out what he is saying about his future as a father and an American.
3. I read it as a story about male relationships with other men. The way they bond over an athletic activity and then proceed to not talk much at the Inn is an interesting reflection of the friendships between men. I think its also a chance for Nick to reflect on the pregnancy of his wife when he sees the pregnant waitress. How his life with change now that he is going to be a dad. He may no longer have time to ski and be with friends.
I find it interesting that both you and Nicole interpreted the "it" as his impending fatherhood. Upon second-look, I agree, but I stand by my original interpretation, which was that he was talking about his marriage. These two ideas are tied up in the same dread of losing a degree of freedom to something he isn't excited about.
Delete1. I didn’t enjoy this story as much as I’ve enjoyed others, even the “boring” ones. It’s like a repeat of the “The Three Day Blow” but without the entertaining boyishness. The line that stayed with me after reading was, “I wonder why I didn’t see [the pregnancy] when she first came in” (Hemingway 252). It seems normal enough to not immediately recognize that someone is pregnant, but the fact that Nick is so confused perhaps implies she was trying to hide it earlier, a prime example of the Iceberg Theory.
ReplyDelete2. When I read this, I thought that it connoted some optimism on Nick’s part. Often when two friends complain together, they are quick to exaggerate their problems. Nick seems to want to believe that “it,” which I interpreted as either his life or his marriage, is not all bad, even though he doesn’t know why.
3. I think that this story examines the idea of being stuck in unfavorable circumstances, and how people feel obliged to keep following the path they are taking even though they could change their course if they really wanted to. In other words, it examines the mid-life crisis. Many characters (Nick concerning his marriage, Nick concerning skiing with George, Helen concerning moving, the waitress concerning her baby) look around at their situation in life, are displeased, and don’t do anything to change it.
1. All of the details that Ernest Hemingway included about the skiing stood out to me quite a bit. I thought it was interesting that he went into so much detail because I didn’t think that skiing was the point of the story. The lines that stuck out most to me were: “‘Should we have another bottle ?’ Nick asked. Not for me,’ said George.They sat there, Nick leaning his elbows on the table, George slumped back against the wall. ‘Is Helen going to have a baby ?’ George said, coming down to the table from the wall. ‘Yes.' ‘When ?’ ‘Late next summer.’ ‘Are you glad ?' ‘Yes, now.’ ‘Will you go back to the States?’ ‘I guess so.'” These lines stuck out to me because they showed that Nick wanted to continue to be young and enjoy a carefree life, whereas George was committed to his family.
ReplyDelete2. I think that George said “not exactly” because he actually somewhat enjoyed family life and he was looking forward to being a father. I think that George knew that he couldn’t explain the appeal of settling down to Nick, so he did not even try
3. I think this story is about growing up and accepting the responsibilities of being an adult.
I really enjoyed this story. The line that really stuck with me was at the end about promises, “There isn’t any good in promises”. I liked this line because it reminds me of the iceberg theory. This line could seem simple but if you think about why Nick might feel tis way it can really show us a lot more about him as a character.
ReplyDeleteI think that the good but funny feeling that George is feeling is happiness. Right now in the story, they are just two friends out on a trip to ski and have fun. The haven’t been stressed or worried and especially for nick that is probably a good feeling. They seem to just be enjoying time with friends and the easiness of it.
This story seems like just a fun story until the end. In the end we learn that nick is married and expecting to have a baby soon. His life is is about to change a lot. We are learning that Nick is excited about what his future is holding but is nervous about what being a father will mean. As a father, he might not be able to skip with george as much, he will have to be responsible for another life.
1.) I really liked this story, in part because I like Nick as a character, and so finally seeing him in a state that is somewhat better, more normal, than many of the other postwar stories have been. He has definitely recovered since “Big Two-Hearted River.” I think that the moment that both outlined this new Nick, and was the most prominent in my mind was the tumble that Nick takes at the beginning. He is so confident that he won’t fall and then all of a sudden without realizing it he is tumbling over a soft patch of snow, his feet gone from under him until he rolls to a stop. I thought the level of calm that he maintained was in stark contrast to the past, and a cool image of falling in snow.
ReplyDelete2.) For Nick, I think that the evidence for the U.S. being not exactly hell, but close, is partly from the previous stories detailing the many difficulties that he’s had in the U.S. and on behalf of the country in the war. One thing that is telling is when he talks about how “everywhere [he’s] ever been” to ski in the states has been to rocky, and not good at all. This is a metaphor for America and Nick, that there just hasn’t been anywhere stateside that has made him feel at home, and happy with what is there. Nick isn’t able to find the right place anywhere he’s been inside the US.
3.) This story is not just about two friend skiing, but more about the end of something. These two friends here spent an awesome day together, but at the end George says, “maybe we’ll never go skiing again, Nick,” to which Nick responds, “There isn’t any good in promising.” Both men know that they are never going to be this happy, with each other, together like this again, and though they both want this to come again, it isn’t. And so they leave it unspoken, as they get ready for the ride home, that this is an ending, if not of their friendship, of Swiss skiing and the freedom that speed brings Nick.
1. I liked this story, two guys (Nick and George) taking a quick break from their lives that are both getting overwhelmingly serious, they know they're having fun now, but are aware that it won't last which makes them hold on even tighter to these last moments together before a new chapter of their lives takes over: "Now they would have the run home together." Both have matured immensely and seem relaxed in a good state of mind, in the backs of their minds they know this will be over soon.
ReplyDelete2. For me I interpreted this as Nick and George feeling like they've outgrown their childhood and both share that bond of losing to return to their lives when they didn't have so many commitments. Although Nick feels like becoming a father and having a wife is supposed to be "hell" he is starting to see how he might like the way his life is going to be.
3. Nick is parting with his old self, his life is about to change immensely, this is him taking a deep breath before diving into a whole new chapter of his life. He needs this as an intermission before he goes into uncharted territory.
1) I really enjoyed the story. I liked the line "George and Nick were happy. They were fond of each other. They knew they had the run back home ahead of them" (Hemingway 252). I like the idea of old friends seeing each other again after a long while and still feeling a close connection. I also think that Nick is a very lonely person and we don't see him interact with many close friends in these stories, so when he does speak with someone he's close to it makes me feel happy for him.
ReplyDelete2) When I first read the story, I thought that George saying "it's hell" was referring to Nick's relationship with Helen. I thought Nick replying with "Not exactly" implied that his relationship with Helen had previously been bad, but now that they were going to have a baby, things were a little more exciting and bearable for Nick.
3) I think this story is about relationships and getting older. All the fun and care-free days of Nick's teenage years are gone. He only sees his best friend on occasion, and when he does see him they don't get super drunk together and do the wild things that they used to. Also, a girlfriend isn't just a girlfriend for Nick anymore. Helen becomes the future mother of his child, and perhaps even future wife. I think the point of the story is that relationships seriously change as you get older.